Unfinished Christianity

Hell is a place called home

Wow...I would have never thought that a music video by Ludacris would bring me to tears, but Becoming Missional posted a dramatic comparison of what Christians are generally concerned with and what kind of problems the real world is dealing with. While Christians spend their lives creating doctrinal points, millions of children are growing up in a cold world, thinking that "hell is a place called home" from which they run away for the rest of their lives. Usually I would have no reason whatsoever to watch a Ludacris video, but this is dramatic...

Also, I forgot to mention that there may be some graphic language in this.

Thanks to: Jerry Fear

09 Mar, 2007 | Virgil

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Comments

by Jerry Frear - 09 Mar, 2007 - 23:28:58

Thanks for the shout!

by parker - 10 Mar, 2007 - 11:15:02

Good video, in many respects. (Though I dread the thought that this is marketed to 9 year olds in white suburbia that don't really have this experience, aren't mature enough for the object lesson, and don't need any encouragement to run away with Ludacris and Mary J. Blige.) Hehe.

Virgil, I don't think Catholics share the experience of or hold the perspective about christian ineptitude in the way you have described. Catholic social teaching is robust, and no government or charity group can hold a candle to the quality-of-life impact being made worldwide by Catholic social services (think Mother Teresa's Missionaries of Charity; catholic adoption services, etc.). Moreover, the average catholic is not trained to be a theological disputer -- instead he/she is taught to live out applied theology. That is, catholic laypeople are taught to live the christian values of raising cohesive healthy families, working hard, doing good deeds, living ethically, and supporting missions to the poor, like the St. Vincent dePaul Society. I suspect that this emphasis is directly related to the Church's insistence on good works as essential to the salvation of humanity.

But I'd also like to defend protestants on this thread. Though I may agree that evangelicals need a more developed fomulation of christian social teaching so as to be more effective in addressing social probems (like those mentioned in the video), I don't think it is wrong for protestants to emphasize the role of sin and evangelism when thinking about social problems. The broken young lives portrayed in that video are broken precisely because of a laundry list of sins committed against them (sexual abuse, divorce, neglect, drugs, premarital sex, parental abandonment, selfishness, etc). Traditionally, protestant preachers have called out those sins and pleaded with individuals to turn away from such actions. That's a good thing. Identifying a problem is always the first step in problem solving.

Sure, christians can become so preoccupied by endless debates about the Trinity, or eschatology, or other topics that they neglect to do good works of charity (the Book of James is precisely about avoiding that trap). But, how pervasive is that misguided preoccupation, really?

It's important to note that christians, generally speaking, aren't the problem, aren't generating social ills, and aren't participating in the behaviors that lead to such destruction. That says that christians are doing a lot of good in the world. The question then is how can we all work together better to identify and export the values and norms of our communities to others so that others may also be saved by them.

by Ariah Fine - 10 Mar, 2007 - 11:46:30

Great link. I've been listening to this song for a while now, but never thought to check out the video. It's a powerful song for sure. It's opened up a great many good conversations with the kids I work with.

by Marty Davis - 10 Mar, 2007 - 15:24:26

The video is thought-provoking, but at a deeper level the "rap" culture in general, that Ludacris identifies with, feeds the very situations that it exposes. Lyrics that call women "bitches" and Video images that exalt the importance of gold-teeth and having a beautiful "booty" as well as gang membership - feed the stereotypes that cause people to abuse each other and to use violence as a solution.

I'd like to believe that commercial exposure to the issues helps but often they just sell more albums as people buy them so that they can "feel better" about themselves by listening and watching rather than doing!! Sorry if this sounds jaded - but I'm a child of the benefit concert era - where the concerts would raise $750,000 for charity, but the ensuing album and video make $100 Million for the artists!!! Very lucrative while appearing to be socially redeeming!!

by Virgil - 10 Mar, 2007 - 19:11:39

Very true Marty, which is why I usually don't watch or listen to Ludacris.

Ariah, to me this shows that we can find beauty and creativity in the least unlikely places.

by notquitemiddleknowledge - 10 Mar, 2007 - 23:19:34

Virgil,

I have enjoyed your website very much over the past year or two, and have been interested in seeing the evolution of the 'emergent' or missional church movement. In the interest of honesty, I myself am more traditional and find great encouragement and rest in my weekly meeting with other Christians, even though we meet in a 'church' building. However, I have to take you to the task on the Ludacris Video as well as the disgusting and outrageous parody that accompanied it on the becoming missional website. First of all I can't believe you would fall prey to a 'rap' videos' attempt to pull at your heart strings to make a buck. Come on, if you really loved the downtrodden you would speak out against evil and sin when it so blantantly smacks you in the face. (If you believe in evil and sin, I am not sure if some of my preterist brothers do anymore). The only redeeming value of this video, if it has any redeeming value at all, is that it shows the true fruit of living outside of the AUTHORITY of Christ, and what the world is like for those who refuse to SUBMIT to HIS Lordship. That is what we should focus on and point out. Also keep in mind that people like Ludacris, the culture of Hollywood, and others that hold to a humanist worldview are a large part of the reason why so many kids live in a 'hell at home." I was also shocked that you would link such a disgusting parody video obviosly done by someone who has true hate in their hearts for a certain philosophy on Christian living. If I made a parody of an emergent church filled with liberals fornicating, drunk, and passing un-Biblical laws, while praising God that they are under grace and not the law, would you post that? One thing that I get from 'reading' emergent church material is the fact that they pride themselves on 'loving' the world. How about love and respect for other Christians first. Besides how many times have you been approached my a the Christian depicted in the parody, really? I bet you could count them one or two hands. Be honest. And how many people have been saved like that? Are you really so arrogant that you can say that approach is 100% ineffective? Are you even more arrogent to laugh along with a video that degrades those Christians that put themselves out there? Where is your faith in the power of the Holy Spirit? We all come to our Faith in different ways. I for one will not sit by and see a brother (or a whole segment of my brothers and sisters) in Christ so viciously attacked by another Christian. How can you claim to be missional when Jesus tells us (John 13:34-35) that the world (non Christians) will know we are disciples by the way we love other Christians? Or do you get together with your non Christian friends and laugh and slander other Christians behind their back? I personally know people that are tremendous Christians that were saved at an alter call or by an evangelizing outreach program, just as I know tremedous Christians that have come to know Christ through the daily living of other Christians. God workd in mysterious ways my friend. Even the ones that we disagree with. I also take offense to the premise that Christians aren't focused on helping kids escape the hell that is home. In short, the only reason why they can escape is because of doctrine, belief, faith, and obedience all given to us by Christ. I am probably more concerned with my obedience to Christ and discipleship than being missional to others because I know that if I take care of myself, I will take care of others. This is a common theme in many Churches today, emergent or not. Please do not disregard that fact. Maybe if more Christians took a more obedient route and proclaimed the truth, we would start to tackle some of these problems that plague us as a society and culture. Or we could just keep on 'loving' our neighbor, but never tell them the truth, while blasting those Christians that are beneath us. I would humbly ask you to re-evaluate your post, and re-consider your stance on the preceding parady video, in light of a Christain worldview.
Micah Martin

by Virgil - 10 Mar, 2007 - 23:33:19

Micah, thanks for the message...I appreciate your concern. I am sorry the video and the parody upset you, however not all of us here react to creative forces identically. Some of us find the Ludacris video extremely powerful and helpful in illustrating real problems that real people face on a daily basis while others see it as an offense. As far as I go I will always point out positive things I run across, whether they come from Ludacris or Mother Teresa.

Perhaps my initial words were a bit too general when speaking of "Christians and doctrinal points" - but you need to contextualize them as well. I am referring to Christians concerned solely with systematic theology while the world is going to hell...literally. That is happening...right now. Not with every single Christian in this world, but with many.

by notquitemiddleknowledge - 11 Mar, 2007 - 00:03:19

Virgil,

So the people in Ludacris video are the only real people? Only the downtrodden are living real lives, and that is all we are concerned about? You still didn't answer my question about posting a parody of the emergent church. Would you be so quick to post that? Also, why can't you use the Ludacris video to point out the obvious fact that it is just the logical, and natural way for those who reject Christ to live? I have compassion for them, I try to help them, and we as Christians need to work to bring the gospel to them. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't speak the truth, because quite frankly if we don't offer the truth, which is found in Gods grace, we only offer them a false hope, and are really doing them a disservice. I was not offended at either video, rather, I was appalled that you would use such a parody to make a point,(the Mel video) because the parody was so off base (false witness) and it was aimed, with scorn I might add, at a very large group of Christians. Do you not agree that those Baptist that that video is making fun of are Christians? And the second video, only made me strengthen my resolve to live the kind of life that would erradicate such videos that are so consistent with their worldview along with the worldview itself. To me the most profound thing about the Ludacris video is the clarity of truth it brings when dealing with a non biblical worldview? Do you bring that up to your non Christian friends? Do you spark that debate? Let me know about that parody video on the emergent church. I am sure I could get my buddies to whip something up.
Micah

by davo - 11 Mar, 2007 - 00:19:44

Yes Virgil that world is all too real – I have a lot of contact with kids who know that story all too well. Is it little wonder that folk grow up struggling with an inner faith and yet we in our religiosity will go around saying "Jesus loves you!" to which they will rightly ask: "how much does he love me?" – "unconditionally we will say; He has grace for your life" – "what kind of grace?" they will query – "undeserved and unmerited, it's all yours!" – "well I'm not sure about this" they will respond – and our rejoiner: "then you're going to burn in Hell forever". Talk about a toxic and schizophrenic Christianity.

…The power and mercy of God's grace is NOT limited to man's ability to comprehend it…

by Ed Burley - 11 Mar, 2007 - 13:07:19

Virgil,
I agree with Micah on many points. In my various comments about Emergent, you have defended any generalization that I made. You stood and defended Emergent. But now (although I have not watched the video yet) Micah makes a point about the parody, but you make no attempt to defend those GOOD Christians that are defamed in it (according to Micah).

Is Micah wrong? Is the parody a generous orthodoxy towards non-Emergent Christians?

I am sickened by bumper stickers like "The Christian Right is Neither."

And Parker again is correct on many points. Ludicris and his ilk encourage the behaviors that are at the root of societal ills. In addition, there would be no such things as hospitals, charitable organizations, soup kitchens, etc. were it not for Christians.

American Christianity deserves criticism, not ridicule. But Emergent is a part of American Christianity. We need a more comprehensive view of the tension between Gospel and Social Action. Too narrow a view creates one of the extremes of Fundamentalism or Liberation Theology. Both are a denial of sin, human nature, grace, and redemption.

by middleknowledge - 11 Mar, 2007 - 14:43:16

Ed,

Right on.

Micah,

Welcome to Planetpreterist.

My younger siblings never cease to amaze me with their maturity and wisdom,

Love,

Tim Martin
http://www.truthinliving.org

by Virgil - 11 Mar, 2007 - 15:56:16

Micah, I don't even know where to start. First of all I think you are under the impression that I had something to do with the making of the "parody" video. I don't know where you got that idea. I believe the "parody" is quite funny actually...perhaps poorly delivered in the context of Ludacris' video. I think we all need to learn to laugh at ourselves a bit more...otherwise you can take it up with the people who made it. I have no idea who they are.

You also wrote

To me the most profound thing about the Ludacris video is the clarity of truth it brings when dealing with a non biblical worldview? Do you bring that up to your non Christian friends? Do you spark that debate?

Glad to hear that, I feel exactly the same way. I do believe however that a "biblical worldview" is more than often a masquerade of Scripture rather than how Christ actually has taught us to live.

As far as your question regarding to "parody" I have no idea what you are asking me....again, you can take your complaints up with the people that made it.

by Virgil - 11 Mar, 2007 - 15:59:04

Ed wrote:

American Christianity deserves criticism, not ridicule. But Emergent is a part of American Christianity. We need a more comprehensive view of the tension between Gospel and Social Action. Too narrow a view creates one of the extremes of Fundamentalism or Liberation Theology. Both are a denial of sin, human nature, grace, and redemption.

Ed, again, I am not sure why you are directing this at me. Where did I ridicule American Christianity? Emerging Christianity is providing the very thing you are mentioning, the tension between theology and social gospel. What is fundamentalism providing?

by Virgil - 11 Mar, 2007 - 16:03:39

Davo wrote:

Is it little wonder that folk grow up struggling with an inner faith and yet we in our religiosity will go around saying "Jesus loves you!" to which they will rightly ask: "how much does he love me?"

I agree my friend...there is a great disconnect between what Christians say and what they do, which is why I believe that what we project to the world regarding our faith is important. Do we project a God that can't wait to get even when the time comes, or a God with a broken heart reaching out to his children? Do we project a God that laugh maniacally while is lighting a match under our feet or a God that is giving us fire-proof shoes?

by parker - 11 Mar, 2007 - 16:40:29

I don't know who made that "Missional Misadventures" video, but I agree with others here that it's a grotesque caricature of fundamentalists and somewhat demeaning (perhaps even offensive and unloving). At the very least, the video's message is lost due to its sheer derisiveness.

by Ed Burley - 11 Mar, 2007 - 16:44:00

Virgil,
it was not directed at you. It was in regards to what Parker and Micah wrote. I told you on another post that I am attending an emerging church. I agree with the intent of that fellowship.

However, I feel that some emergent folks feel the need to exalt themselves at the expense of others. This is a valid criticism of Emergent, which is a segment of American Christianity (after all McLaren, McKnight, et al are Americans).

Fundamentalism adds nothing to our world. Neither does liberalism. As far as Emergent distances itself from liberalism, I am fine with it. However, the blog from which you got this video does not represent me, NOR biblical Christianity.

Our concern for the poor is laudable. But how does that concern manifest? Ridiculing evangelicals? Posting videos showing two fundamentalist Christians kissing post-rapture, as if they were closet homosexuals?

Where does this end? Why is it alright for Emergent liberals to mock and ridicule conservatives? Why, when their liberalism is criticized, are they defended here?

I am sick of the "they aren't perfect" crap. At my emerging fellowship that I attend, I encouraged everyone to NOT criticize their former churches, or other Christians.

I know that I have been guilty in the past of this very thing, but can't we strive for peace, and fellowship? If fundamentalists find reason to break fellowship with us, that's on their head. But when we ridicule them, are we any better?

by Paige - 11 Mar, 2007 - 18:01:34

"but can't we strive for peace, and fellowship? If fundamentalists find reason to break fellowship with us, that's on their head. But when we ridicule them, are we any better?"

Amen. Love is not proud, it does not boast...Famous words and oh so true. When we start down the road of comparing ourselves to others (us and them, etc) that is the very moment we cross the line from humble to proud, IMO.

I haven't seen the video. I'm just exercising my right to put my 2 cents in (lol). Can we find ways to call all of us to action that does not involve ridicule, comparison, fear, etc?

How about more videos of Mother Theresa? Wouldn't it be wonderful to internalize and live out her philosophy? She said that she saw those she touched as if she was touching Jesus. What better motivation than that to go out and make a difference.

Love,
Pollyanna (or so I have been called)

by notquitemiddleknowledge - 11 Mar, 2007 - 23:01:23

Virgil,

I think I need to make one final comment on here. First of all let me tell you that I do enjoy your website, and God has blessed you tremendously with an audience and the fortitude to create such a good forum. The two things that I will touch on have to do with responsibility and consistency. (I will not use hypocricy because I like to give the benifit of the doubt.)

Responsibility: you wrote

"Micah, I don't even know where to start. First of all I think you are under the impression that I had something to do with the making of the "parody" video. I don't know where you got that idea. I believe the "parody" is quite funny actually...perhaps poorly delivered in the context of Ludacris' video"

I never said you had a part in making the video, I just asked why you posted and supported such a disgusting video. (Parody) At the top of this post you said.

"but Becoming Missional posted a dramatic comparison of what Christians are generally concerned with and what kind of problems the real world is dealing with."

so this 'parody' is a 'dramatic' comparison of what Christians are generally concerned with? I don't know about anyone else but I would say the % of Christians in churches or on the street that 'evangelize' in the way that was depicted is about 1/2 of 1%. I ask you again, how many times have you been approached by these 'unlovig Christians' in your life? 5, 10, 20? Or are you making a generalization based on bias and bitterness from something in your past? You also didn't answer my question, do you believe this tactic for evangelism is %100 ineffective and %100 damaging to the Christian faith? In other words, is it impossible to save someone this way? I would be very interested to hear a clear cut, concise answer to these questions. You yourself stated that the parody was a 'dramatic' depiction of how Christians are misguided. When I called you to task on posting such a video obviosly done with hate and scorn you told me to take it up with the creators. This is a typical liberal tactic. "Hey lets try communism... oh it's not my fault millions of people got murdered, they just did it the wrong way" Responsibility my friend. When you don't take responsibility you lose credibility.

Consistency: I ask you again, would you post or link a parody involving a bunch of emergents sitting around, getting drunk, fornicating, and passing un-Biblical laws, all while claiming to be under grace and not the law as their justification? A simple yes or no will do. You said that you thought the parody was funny. I agree it was funny. That doesn't make it ok, or loving, or edifying. I bet a lot of people think the Ludacris video is funny in an ironic sort of way. I mean think about it. A spokesperson for a lifestyle making a touching video showing the horrible effect and consequences to living the lifestyle that they so eagerly preach. Come on, you have to have a laugh at that, or at least a chuckle. But that doesn't give those in that camp a right to make fun of those depicted in the video. Consistency my friend.

The final point I would make is an open ended question. (This question assumes that you believe in a real Hell, or a real Divine punishment for failing to call out to God for salvation.) Supose you are a doctor. A very dear friend has terminal cancer. You just got done doing the test. You have a %100 cure but you decide that you love him too much to break the news right away so you delay. You not only never give him the cure but you even fail to tell him he has cancer, and he will die in 6 months. Is that true love? Even Jesus told people they must repent. I don't think you would laugh at a parody video of that, would you?
Again, I do not bring up these points to degrade you. I only would like to point out areas where I see the potential for you to lose credibility and for strife to spring forth from the movement you associate with. I don't always do a good job of wrapping my words in love and edification but please know this is my intention in case some of them came across as harsh.
If you would be so kind as to answer the questions I asked, that would be appreciated.
Humbly in Christ,
Micah Martin

by notquitemiddleknowledge - 12 Mar, 2007 - 21:57:45

Virgil,

Will you answer my questions?

Micah Martin

by Virgil - 13 Mar, 2007 - 12:05:17

Micah, I hesitated to give you a quick answer because your tone is combative and I would likely end up regretting an interaction with you in that context.

You have made several points that I want to quickly address:

1. "why you posted and supported such a disgusting video"

I did not post it; it's not on this website and I do not believe it is disgusting.

2. "so this 'parody' is a 'dramatic' comparison of what Christians are generally concerned with?"

No, not the parody; the substance of the music video I posted above is a dramatic comparison. Christians are generally speaking concerned with "getting people to heaven" - that concern is misplaced and misguided in my opinion.

3. "I ask you again, how many times have you been approached by these 'unlovig Christians' in your life?"

I haven't been approached...I used to be one of them.

4. "I ask you again, would you post or link a parody involving a bunch of emergents sitting around, getting drunk, fornicating, and passing un-Biblical laws"

I am not aware of such a thing and I do not see the connection. If you find one, send it my way. I'd be happy to give you my opinion as far as humor goes. :)

I am sorry you were offended Micah. I recommend you read my post again and try to rediscover its meaning. Based on your comments it seems like you completely missed my original intent, which was the real need to recognize the problem of runaway children and abuse in their homes. This video points that out very well in my opinion. You seem to disagree; that's fine, I understand and I will not take it as an offense and I don't see such disagreements as affecting my "credibility."

Hopefully you can find out the authors of the video and share your concerns with them as well, I am sure it would be fairly easy to

by notquitemiddleknowledge - 13 Mar, 2007 - 21:47:36

Virgil,

Thanks the post-modern response. Very... enlightening.

Micah Martin

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